This article has been updated and moved my new site, Lo-fi Gun & Game
Showing posts with label Shooting. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Shooting. Show all posts
Monday, April 23, 2012
Saturday, January 7, 2012
.45-70 vs. gel blocks
The following was a guest article originally posted to diyballistics.com in September of 2010.
It is a goal of mine to ultimately run a test of every lever action cartridge still in production, and maybe even a few that are largely no longer available. The big problem with this plan, as usual, is money. I am not a man of great means, so it is unlikely (barring a Powerball win) that I will own a lever action rifle chambered in every available cartridge within my lifetime. Luckily, I’m in contact with people who have many more firearms than I and who are willing to run a few gel tests for me.
Ted Hambach from the forums over at www.leverguns.com was kind enough to take the time to prepare some gel blocks and test a few of his favorite .45-70 gov’t loads. His test setup consisted of 12”x6” blocks of 10% gelatin backed by stacks of dry phone books. All test shots were fired from a Marlin model 1895 Guide Gun with an 18.5” barrel. All cast bullets were made with wheel weight alloy for an approximate BHN (Brinell hardness) of 12.
Rounds used in the tests (from left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, Speer 400 gn FP, Cast 420 gn FP
The unfired bullets (left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, Speer 400 gn FP, 420 gn cast FP Lyman 322 grain cast hollowpoint
The first load to hit the blocks was a 322 grain hollowpoint cast from the Lyman 457122HP mold. The usual muzzle velocity of this load is 1600 f/s. In the interest of simulating a 50 yard impact on the block (which was shot at a range of 15 feet) the charge was reduced to produce a 15 foot impact velocity of approximately 1450 f/s.
The bullet began to open up a few inches into the gel then explosively expanded, sending bullet fragments in multiple directions through the gel block with some fragments exiting the top and sides. The expansion of the bullet devastated the first 8 inches of the block and the core travelled through the entire 12 inch block, just embedding itself in the first phone book behind the gel. The primary fragment had a retained mass of 115.3 grains and a diameter of .552”.
Cross section of the cavity created by the 322 grain hollowpoint.
Recovered 322 gn HP Hornady 350 grain flat point
Next up was a Hornady 350 grain jacketed flat point. The full power load leaves the muzzle at 1900 f/s, so it was loaded down to a velocity of 1700 f/s in order to simulate a 50 yard impact.
The load inflicted a tremendous amount of destruction on the gel block, splitting it, and the 2×6” pine board on which it sat, into two pieces. After annihilating the block, the bullet buried itself 1.5” into the dry phone book backer. The recovered bullet had a retained mass 311 grains and an expanded diameter of .897”.
Cross section of the cavity created by the Hornady 350 gn FP
Recovered Hornady 350 gn bullet RCBS cast 420 grain flat nose
This bullet was cast from the RCBS 45-405-FN mold (lubed and gas checked) and loaded to an impact velocity of 1250 f/s, putting it on par with the loads that were fired from trap door rifles on the American frontier in the 19th century.
The bullet cleared the block and 3” of dry phone book, demonstrating spectacular penetrative capability. The recovered bullet has a mass of 389.5 grains and an expanded diameter of .720”.
Cavity created by the 422 gn cast FP
Recovered 422 gn cast FP Speer 400 grain jacketed flat point
This heavy hitter is usually launched at a muzzle velocity of 1800 f/s but was loaded down to an impact velocity of 1650 f/s to simulate 50 yard performance. The bullet left a wide cavity in the gel block before exiting and embedding 1” into the dry phone book backer. The bullet held together exceptionally well, balancing expansion and weight retention. The recovered bullet retained 396.1 grains of its original mass and expanded to a diameter of .842”.
Cavity created by the Speer 400 gn FP
Recovered 400 gn FP
A comparison of the unfired and fired bullets (left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, 422 gn cast FP, Speer 400 gn FP
It is a goal of mine to ultimately run a test of every lever action cartridge still in production, and maybe even a few that are largely no longer available. The big problem with this plan, as usual, is money. I am not a man of great means, so it is unlikely (barring a Powerball win) that I will own a lever action rifle chambered in every available cartridge within my lifetime. Luckily, I’m in contact with people who have many more firearms than I and who are willing to run a few gel tests for me.
Ted Hambach from the forums over at www.leverguns.com was kind enough to take the time to prepare some gel blocks and test a few of his favorite .45-70 gov’t loads. His test setup consisted of 12”x6” blocks of 10% gelatin backed by stacks of dry phone books. All test shots were fired from a Marlin model 1895 Guide Gun with an 18.5” barrel. All cast bullets were made with wheel weight alloy for an approximate BHN (Brinell hardness) of 12.
Rounds used in the tests (from left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, Speer 400 gn FP, Cast 420 gn FP
The unfired bullets (left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, Speer 400 gn FP, 420 gn cast FP Lyman 322 grain cast hollowpoint
The first load to hit the blocks was a 322 grain hollowpoint cast from the Lyman 457122HP mold. The usual muzzle velocity of this load is 1600 f/s. In the interest of simulating a 50 yard impact on the block (which was shot at a range of 15 feet) the charge was reduced to produce a 15 foot impact velocity of approximately 1450 f/s.
The bullet began to open up a few inches into the gel then explosively expanded, sending bullet fragments in multiple directions through the gel block with some fragments exiting the top and sides. The expansion of the bullet devastated the first 8 inches of the block and the core travelled through the entire 12 inch block, just embedding itself in the first phone book behind the gel. The primary fragment had a retained mass of 115.3 grains and a diameter of .552”.
Cross section of the cavity created by the 322 grain hollowpoint.
Recovered 322 gn HP Hornady 350 grain flat point
Next up was a Hornady 350 grain jacketed flat point. The full power load leaves the muzzle at 1900 f/s, so it was loaded down to a velocity of 1700 f/s in order to simulate a 50 yard impact.
The load inflicted a tremendous amount of destruction on the gel block, splitting it, and the 2×6” pine board on which it sat, into two pieces. After annihilating the block, the bullet buried itself 1.5” into the dry phone book backer. The recovered bullet had a retained mass 311 grains and an expanded diameter of .897”.
Cross section of the cavity created by the Hornady 350 gn FP
Recovered Hornady 350 gn bullet RCBS cast 420 grain flat nose
This bullet was cast from the RCBS 45-405-FN mold (lubed and gas checked) and loaded to an impact velocity of 1250 f/s, putting it on par with the loads that were fired from trap door rifles on the American frontier in the 19th century.
The bullet cleared the block and 3” of dry phone book, demonstrating spectacular penetrative capability. The recovered bullet has a mass of 389.5 grains and an expanded diameter of .720”.
Cavity created by the 422 gn cast FP
Recovered 422 gn cast FP Speer 400 grain jacketed flat point
This heavy hitter is usually launched at a muzzle velocity of 1800 f/s but was loaded down to an impact velocity of 1650 f/s to simulate 50 yard performance. The bullet left a wide cavity in the gel block before exiting and embedding 1” into the dry phone book backer. The bullet held together exceptionally well, balancing expansion and weight retention. The recovered bullet retained 396.1 grains of its original mass and expanded to a diameter of .842”.
Cavity created by the Speer 400 gn FP
Recovered 400 gn FP
A comparison of the unfired and fired bullets (left to right); 322 gn cast HP, Hornady 350 gn FP, 422 gn cast FP, Speer 400 gn FP
Thursday, January 5, 2012
Buckshot and birdshot gel tests
Here's yet another article from my old site. I had some leftover gel from a previous test and I decided to have a little fun by blasting it with various buckshot and birdshot loads. I would later conduct a similar, more comprehensive test for another publication.
It by no means settles the old debate over the potential of birdshot as a home defense load, but once again, I had fun.
If you spend way too much time on internet shooting forums like I do, you’ll notice a fairly common topic of conversation to be the value of birdshot loads for self defense. I’m not going to pretend to be a tactical expert when I’m really just a guy who likes to fire guns at blocks of jelly, but I can’t help but notice that many of the comparisons I’ve seen between buckshot and birdshot pitted a 00 buck load against a dove/quail birdshot load. I began to wonder how other, stouter, birdshot loads would compare to the tried and true 00 buck. So, I cast the remainder of my ballistics gel into some plastic containers, placed two layers of denim over them and opened up with a selection of turkey, waterfowl and small buckshot loads. All shots were taken at a distance of approximately 15 feet using a modified choke in my Mossberg 835.
Remington 2.75″ 00 Buck
First, I established a sort of control using a Remington 2.75″ 12 pellet load of 00 Buck. Predictably, the pellets went right through the 15″ gel block and buried themselves in the backstop. It’s hard to argue with that kind of performance.
Cross section of the 00 buck cavity
Federal 3.5 Strut Shok 2 oz #6
I decided to get the Federal 3.5″ turkey load over with second. These rounds hold 2 ounces of #6 shot and kill on both ends. The pellets penetrated about 10″ into the block, mangling it in the process. I certainly wouldn’t want to get hit in the chest (or anywhere else) with 2 oz of #6 shot. However, I imagine that the miserable amount of recoil produced by these turkey loads would limit their usefulness for self defense. Recoil makes a quick follow-up shot virtually impossible.
From Top: The entry “wound” created by the 3.5″ turkey load; Cross Section of the cavity created by the turkey load
Federal 3″ Black Cloud Size BB
Next up was Federal’s Black Cloud #BB steel waterfowl load. The 3″ sends 1 ¼ oz of shot downrange at 1450 f/s. While some of the pellets stopped in the 12″ block, many of them penetrated completely with a few even making it through the 5/8″ plywood at the face of the backstop. The channel in the gel was large and ragged.
From Top: Entry point of the #BB Black Cloud load; Black cloud cavity cross section
Size F Buck Handload
Last up was a XXpellet load of small #F buckshot that I handloaded into a standard Win AA hull and wad. Size F buck pellets are each .22″ in diameter, which means I can potentially pack a lot of them into a 2.75″ or 3″ hull. All but a few of the pellets went right through the 12″ gel block, disappearing into the backstop. The diameter of the cavity is actually wider than that of the 00 Buck.
From top: #F Buck Entry; #F Buck cavity cross section
So far, it seems that at close range, such as those across the average bedroom, buckshot provides deeper penetration, but birdshot will turn a wide, shallower section of material into hamburger.
It by no means settles the old debate over the potential of birdshot as a home defense load, but once again, I had fun.
If you spend way too much time on internet shooting forums like I do, you’ll notice a fairly common topic of conversation to be the value of birdshot loads for self defense. I’m not going to pretend to be a tactical expert when I’m really just a guy who likes to fire guns at blocks of jelly, but I can’t help but notice that many of the comparisons I’ve seen between buckshot and birdshot pitted a 00 buck load against a dove/quail birdshot load. I began to wonder how other, stouter, birdshot loads would compare to the tried and true 00 buck. So, I cast the remainder of my ballistics gel into some plastic containers, placed two layers of denim over them and opened up with a selection of turkey, waterfowl and small buckshot loads. All shots were taken at a distance of approximately 15 feet using a modified choke in my Mossberg 835.
Remington 2.75″ 00 Buck
First, I established a sort of control using a Remington 2.75″ 12 pellet load of 00 Buck. Predictably, the pellets went right through the 15″ gel block and buried themselves in the backstop. It’s hard to argue with that kind of performance.
Cross section of the 00 buck cavity
Federal 3.5 Strut Shok 2 oz #6
I decided to get the Federal 3.5″ turkey load over with second. These rounds hold 2 ounces of #6 shot and kill on both ends. The pellets penetrated about 10″ into the block, mangling it in the process. I certainly wouldn’t want to get hit in the chest (or anywhere else) with 2 oz of #6 shot. However, I imagine that the miserable amount of recoil produced by these turkey loads would limit their usefulness for self defense. Recoil makes a quick follow-up shot virtually impossible.
From Top: The entry “wound” created by the 3.5″ turkey load; Cross Section of the cavity created by the turkey load
Federal 3″ Black Cloud Size BB
Next up was Federal’s Black Cloud #BB steel waterfowl load. The 3″ sends 1 ¼ oz of shot downrange at 1450 f/s. While some of the pellets stopped in the 12″ block, many of them penetrated completely with a few even making it through the 5/8″ plywood at the face of the backstop. The channel in the gel was large and ragged.
From Top: Entry point of the #BB Black Cloud load; Black cloud cavity cross section
Size F Buck Handload
Last up was a XXpellet load of small #F buckshot that I handloaded into a standard Win AA hull and wad. Size F buck pellets are each .22″ in diameter, which means I can potentially pack a lot of them into a 2.75″ or 3″ hull. All but a few of the pellets went right through the 12″ gel block, disappearing into the backstop. The diameter of the cavity is actually wider than that of the 00 Buck.
From top: #F Buck Entry; #F Buck cavity cross section
So far, it seems that at close range, such as those across the average bedroom, buckshot provides deeper penetration, but birdshot will turn a wide, shallower section of material into hamburger.
12 gauge slug tests part 2: Bone and gel
Here is a second shotgun slug test I conducted in 2009 and posted to my first attempt at a website, www.diyballistics.com. Once again, the test procedure was by no means scientific, but the results still speak volumes to the potential of the 12 gauge slug as a decisive close range big game round.
12 Ga. Lightfield Commander 3.5″ Magnum Slug
I had one Lightfield Commander IDS slug left after my last round of tests and I was curious to see how they performed in my revised test block. Since this was my last slug, and I didn’t want to risk missing, I shot the block at a distance of only a few feet. Admittedly, this is not a simulation of hunting conditions, but I knew the results would be spectacular, so I set my camera to take a video of the block upon impact. In retrospect, I should have set the camera a little further away from the block as the explosive expansion of the slug blew chunks of gel in all directions, narrowly missing my one and only digital camera. As is demonstrated in the video below, the damage to the block was extensive, to say the least.
While the slug only penetrated 6″ into the gel after defeating the rib-block, that 6″ was almost completely destroyed. The slug itself fragmented into lead chards.
From Top:A giant hole in the rib box ;Frontal view of the carnage; side view of damage cavity.
Home Made Shotgun Slugs
Warning/Disclaimer: All load data posted on this page has proven safe in my gun only, and in some cases are the results of my own experimentation and not manufacturer data. What works in my gun may be dangerous in yours. Use caution and common sense while loading.
Naturally, I had to put all my handloaded slugs through the wringer in regards to both accuracy and terminal performance. I fired a few groups at 50 yards with each slug load, and then fired each one through a layer of bone and into a block of ballistics gel. Unfortunately, due to variations in velocity and accuracy between the loads, it wasn’t practical for me to conduct the terminal performance tests at a realistic hunting range. The gelatin tests were therefore conducted at a range of about 15 feet. In spite of this, the results demonstrate how the slugs compare to each other.
12 ga 1-1/8 oz Dangerous Game Slug
I loaded these in a 3″ Fiocchi hull over 36.0 grains of Herco and roll crimped them. The best 50 yard group I got was 4.5″ at its widest point, but this may not be the fault of the components or the load. I’ve noticed that my Mossberg 835 seems to prefer slugs housed in an impact discarding sabot like those employed in Lightfield slugs and the LCB Blue Force. Still 4.5″ at 50 yards is well within the kill zone of a deer at that range.
Penetration was impressive, having defeated a layer of heavy rib bones, 19″ of gel, and 3.5″ of a wax backer block. In spite of the punishment the slug suffered as it impacted bone, it came to a rest mangled, but intact.
From Top: 4.5″ group at 50 yards; DGS 12 Penetration in the “mock deer”; Recovered DGS 12
12 ga LBC Blue Force 7/8 oz
The blue force is essentially a 20 ga 7/8 oz Dangerous Game slug housed in an impact discarding sabot. As mentioned above, my particular slug gun seems to prefer impact discarding sabots and the accuracy results attest to that. The first four shots I fired grouped to 1-3/4″ at 50 yards, but I pulled the final shot making a 5 shot group of 4″. This was my last shot of the shooting session (over 30 slugs fired) and my shoulder was starting to feel like hamburger, so the flyer is most definitely operator error and not a fault of the load, which consisted of 45 grains of Longshot in a 3″ Multi-hull.
Penetration through bone and gel was impressive at 18″ of gel and 3.5″ of wax. The slug held together quite well with no apparent fragmentation and little expansion.
From Upper Left: Blue Force 4″ group; Blue Force penetration in bone and gel; Recovered Blue Force Slug
12 ga BPI sabot with .50 cal 350 grain lead muzzle loading bullet
Initially, I had a lot of trouble getting the sabots to work in my Mossberg. Initially, I tried a 500 grain .50 cal pistol bullet in front of a hearty load of Longshot as per the manufacturer’s directions. Unfortunately, I could not get such loads to group. Inspection of the fired gas seals and sabots showed them to be mangled with a pin hole burnt through the base of each. I figured that the powder charges were creating too much stress for the components, so I took it on myself to do a little experimentation and come up with a milder load. What seemed to work (so far at least) is 36.0 grains of Herco under the gas seal and sabot inside of a Fiocchi 3″ hull (roll crimped). This is an experimental load, so I don’t recommend anyone else try it. Accuracy wasn’t terrible with a 50 yard 4 shot group of about 5″ (it would have been smaller, but there’s always a flyer).
Against the bone and gel, it fared decently with penetration totaling 18″. The bullet fragmented into small lead shards.
From top: Best group using BPI Sabots with a 350 grain bullet; Home made Sabot Slug Penetration; The fragmented bullet
1 oz cast slugs from a Lee mold
These are by far the cheapest slugs I’ve tried so far. The 1 oz Lee has a hollow base with a “drive key” which is a kind of cross piece that locks into the wad under the stress of firing. The wad engages the rifling allowing the slug to rotate. My 50 yard results yielded a group that was 5.5″ at its widest point. Not bad for something I made myself. I’m also curious to try these out of a different slug gun to see if there is any improvement in accuracy.
The Lee slug performed impressively in the terminal performance test, penetrating 18.5″ of gel and bone and another 5″ of wax backer block. The recovered slug looked almost good enough to be loaded and fired again.
From Top: Lee Slug Group; Drive Key; Notch in wad; Lee Slug Penetration; Recovered Lee 1 oz Slug
12 Ga. Lightfield Commander 3.5″ Magnum Slug
I had one Lightfield Commander IDS slug left after my last round of tests and I was curious to see how they performed in my revised test block. Since this was my last slug, and I didn’t want to risk missing, I shot the block at a distance of only a few feet. Admittedly, this is not a simulation of hunting conditions, but I knew the results would be spectacular, so I set my camera to take a video of the block upon impact. In retrospect, I should have set the camera a little further away from the block as the explosive expansion of the slug blew chunks of gel in all directions, narrowly missing my one and only digital camera. As is demonstrated in the video below, the damage to the block was extensive, to say the least.
While the slug only penetrated 6″ into the gel after defeating the rib-block, that 6″ was almost completely destroyed. The slug itself fragmented into lead chards.
From Top:A giant hole in the rib box ;Frontal view of the carnage; side view of damage cavity.
Home Made Shotgun Slugs
Warning/Disclaimer: All load data posted on this page has proven safe in my gun only, and in some cases are the results of my own experimentation and not manufacturer data. What works in my gun may be dangerous in yours. Use caution and common sense while loading.
Naturally, I had to put all my handloaded slugs through the wringer in regards to both accuracy and terminal performance. I fired a few groups at 50 yards with each slug load, and then fired each one through a layer of bone and into a block of ballistics gel. Unfortunately, due to variations in velocity and accuracy between the loads, it wasn’t practical for me to conduct the terminal performance tests at a realistic hunting range. The gelatin tests were therefore conducted at a range of about 15 feet. In spite of this, the results demonstrate how the slugs compare to each other.
12 ga 1-1/8 oz Dangerous Game Slug
I loaded these in a 3″ Fiocchi hull over 36.0 grains of Herco and roll crimped them. The best 50 yard group I got was 4.5″ at its widest point, but this may not be the fault of the components or the load. I’ve noticed that my Mossberg 835 seems to prefer slugs housed in an impact discarding sabot like those employed in Lightfield slugs and the LCB Blue Force. Still 4.5″ at 50 yards is well within the kill zone of a deer at that range.
Penetration was impressive, having defeated a layer of heavy rib bones, 19″ of gel, and 3.5″ of a wax backer block. In spite of the punishment the slug suffered as it impacted bone, it came to a rest mangled, but intact.
From Top: 4.5″ group at 50 yards; DGS 12 Penetration in the “mock deer”; Recovered DGS 12
12 ga LBC Blue Force 7/8 oz
The blue force is essentially a 20 ga 7/8 oz Dangerous Game slug housed in an impact discarding sabot. As mentioned above, my particular slug gun seems to prefer impact discarding sabots and the accuracy results attest to that. The first four shots I fired grouped to 1-3/4″ at 50 yards, but I pulled the final shot making a 5 shot group of 4″. This was my last shot of the shooting session (over 30 slugs fired) and my shoulder was starting to feel like hamburger, so the flyer is most definitely operator error and not a fault of the load, which consisted of 45 grains of Longshot in a 3″ Multi-hull.
Penetration through bone and gel was impressive at 18″ of gel and 3.5″ of wax. The slug held together quite well with no apparent fragmentation and little expansion.
From Upper Left: Blue Force 4″ group; Blue Force penetration in bone and gel; Recovered Blue Force Slug
12 ga BPI sabot with .50 cal 350 grain lead muzzle loading bullet
Initially, I had a lot of trouble getting the sabots to work in my Mossberg. Initially, I tried a 500 grain .50 cal pistol bullet in front of a hearty load of Longshot as per the manufacturer’s directions. Unfortunately, I could not get such loads to group. Inspection of the fired gas seals and sabots showed them to be mangled with a pin hole burnt through the base of each. I figured that the powder charges were creating too much stress for the components, so I took it on myself to do a little experimentation and come up with a milder load. What seemed to work (so far at least) is 36.0 grains of Herco under the gas seal and sabot inside of a Fiocchi 3″ hull (roll crimped). This is an experimental load, so I don’t recommend anyone else try it. Accuracy wasn’t terrible with a 50 yard 4 shot group of about 5″ (it would have been smaller, but there’s always a flyer).
Against the bone and gel, it fared decently with penetration totaling 18″. The bullet fragmented into small lead shards.
From top: Best group using BPI Sabots with a 350 grain bullet; Home made Sabot Slug Penetration; The fragmented bullet
1 oz cast slugs from a Lee mold
These are by far the cheapest slugs I’ve tried so far. The 1 oz Lee has a hollow base with a “drive key” which is a kind of cross piece that locks into the wad under the stress of firing. The wad engages the rifling allowing the slug to rotate. My 50 yard results yielded a group that was 5.5″ at its widest point. Not bad for something I made myself. I’m also curious to try these out of a different slug gun to see if there is any improvement in accuracy.
The Lee slug performed impressively in the terminal performance test, penetrating 18.5″ of gel and bone and another 5″ of wax backer block. The recovered slug looked almost good enough to be loaded and fired again.
From Top: Lee Slug Group; Drive Key; Notch in wad; Lee Slug Penetration; Recovered Lee 1 oz Slug
.357 Mag terminal performance in bone and gel
Originally posted to www.diyballistics.com during the summer of 2009.
The first rounds I fired into the block (which I’m calling the mock deer for lack of a better label) were a selection of .357 magnum loads that performed well during my wax tube tests. My goal was to simulate a long range impact from my carbine, but I didn’t want to risk shooting the block from a distance only to jerk the trigger (which I do every now and again) and ruin the test material with a bad hit. Since I was shooting multiple loads, I would also have to re-zero the scope every time I tried a new one. I wanted to avoid this by shooting the block from a few feet away. I had two options for simulating a long range hit at close range:
1. Reduce the powder charges until the desired velocity was achieved
2. Put the carbine aside and use my Ruger GP-100 to conduct the tests
I was eager to start testing and really didn’t want to spend a lot of time re-developing loads, so, I chronographed my .357 magnum carbine loads out of my 4″ BBL GP-100 to determine if the shorter barrel yielded low enough muzzle velocities to simulate a long range impact from my carbine. The Chart below summarizes my findings.
Load Carbine MV Pistol MV Simulated Distance Expanded Dia. Retained Mass
200 gn LFP 1500 f/s 1160 f/s Approx 130 yards .358” 195gn
180 gn Rem 1714 f/s 1224 f/s Approx 130 yards .448” 137 gn
158 gn rem SJSP 1900 f/s 1350 f/s Approx 120 yards .389″ 153 gn
158 gn Speer GDHP 1885 f/s 1230 f/s Approx 150+ Yards .488” 157 gn
140 gn Barnes XPB 1800 f/s 1486 f/s Approx 70 yards .47” 140 gn
To clarify, My 200 grain Lead Flat Point load left the muzzle of my carbine at 1500 f/s and left the muzzle of the GP-100 at 1160 f/s. That 1160 f/s of muzzle velocity should be approximately the same as the 130 yard velocity of the same load fired from a carbine.
Surprisingly, all tested loads performed similarly in the test material. All five rounds penetrated the 2″ block of rib bones, the 15″ gel block and came to rest ½” deep or less in the wax backer block. The photos below detail the results.
The material after the first shot.
The face of the gel block after two shots. Note the bone fragments
The cavity left by the 200 grain cast flat point
Cavity left by the Rem 180 JHP. Entry and exit points are labeled.
Cavity left by the rem 158 grain JSP. Entry and exit points are labeled.
The 158 grain gold Dot impacted near the top of the block making for an instantly viewable damage cavity.
Cavity left by the 140 grain Barnes XPB. Entry point is at the left.
Dissecting the block revealed just how much pulverized bone was inside the cavity.
Recovered bullets from left to right: Cast performance 200 gn LFP; 180 gn Rem JHP; 158 gn Rem JSP; 158 gn Speer GDHP.
Recovered Barnes 140 gn XPB
The first rounds I fired into the block (which I’m calling the mock deer for lack of a better label) were a selection of .357 magnum loads that performed well during my wax tube tests. My goal was to simulate a long range impact from my carbine, but I didn’t want to risk shooting the block from a distance only to jerk the trigger (which I do every now and again) and ruin the test material with a bad hit. Since I was shooting multiple loads, I would also have to re-zero the scope every time I tried a new one. I wanted to avoid this by shooting the block from a few feet away. I had two options for simulating a long range hit at close range:
1. Reduce the powder charges until the desired velocity was achieved
2. Put the carbine aside and use my Ruger GP-100 to conduct the tests
I was eager to start testing and really didn’t want to spend a lot of time re-developing loads, so, I chronographed my .357 magnum carbine loads out of my 4″ BBL GP-100 to determine if the shorter barrel yielded low enough muzzle velocities to simulate a long range impact from my carbine. The Chart below summarizes my findings.
Load Carbine MV Pistol MV Simulated Distance Expanded Dia. Retained Mass
200 gn LFP 1500 f/s 1160 f/s Approx 130 yards .358” 195gn
180 gn Rem 1714 f/s 1224 f/s Approx 130 yards .448” 137 gn
158 gn rem SJSP 1900 f/s 1350 f/s Approx 120 yards .389″ 153 gn
158 gn Speer GDHP 1885 f/s 1230 f/s Approx 150+ Yards .488” 157 gn
140 gn Barnes XPB 1800 f/s 1486 f/s Approx 70 yards .47” 140 gn
To clarify, My 200 grain Lead Flat Point load left the muzzle of my carbine at 1500 f/s and left the muzzle of the GP-100 at 1160 f/s. That 1160 f/s of muzzle velocity should be approximately the same as the 130 yard velocity of the same load fired from a carbine.
Surprisingly, all tested loads performed similarly in the test material. All five rounds penetrated the 2″ block of rib bones, the 15″ gel block and came to rest ½” deep or less in the wax backer block. The photos below detail the results.
The material after the first shot.
The face of the gel block after two shots. Note the bone fragments
The cavity left by the 200 grain cast flat point
Cavity left by the Rem 180 JHP. Entry and exit points are labeled.
Cavity left by the rem 158 grain JSP. Entry and exit points are labeled.
The 158 grain gold Dot impacted near the top of the block making for an instantly viewable damage cavity.
Cavity left by the 140 grain Barnes XPB. Entry point is at the left.
Dissecting the block revealed just how much pulverized bone was inside the cavity.
Recovered bullets from left to right: Cast performance 200 gn LFP; 180 gn Rem JHP; 158 gn Rem JSP; 158 gn Speer GDHP.
Recovered Barnes 140 gn XPB
Wednesday, January 4, 2012
.357 Mag Terminal performance tests from a carbine
Originally posted to www.diyballistics.com during the summer of 2009.
One of the most valid pieces of criticism I’ve received about my ballistics tests is that I’m making the distances too short. Fair enough. After all, most big game is shot at distances greater than 20 yards. The reason I have previously been testing at a distance of less than 20 yards is simply because I’m not that great a shot. The Bullet Test Tubes I use are six inches in diameter, but I have to hit them within 2 inches of their exact center. Often, a peripheral hit will cause the bullet to deflect enough to leave the test material, making it useless until it can be recast. I found that at 20 yards, even I could consistently make dead center hits. That being said, it’s only fair to test hunting bullets at hunting distances, so I have restarted my testing process anew.Once again, the first rifle up to bat is my personal favorite, the Marlin model 1894C chambered in .357 mag. I can’t say enough good things about this particular carbine. It’s light, handy, easy on the shoulder and incredibly versatile. Loaded with full power rounds, it can turn a water jug inside out or kill a deer at reasonable ranges, or it can be loaded with lower power .38 spl rounds for small game hunting or inexpensive plinking. I’ve topped mine with a full sized scope for the purpose of the tests, but I find a peep site or red dot site to be a little less ungainly on this particular rifle.
180 Grain Remington Semi-Jacketed Hollowpoint
The first load I tested consisted of a 180 grain Remington jacketed hollow point pushed by 15 grains of H-Lil’Gun. These leave the 18.5″ barrel of the carbine at an average velocity of 1714 f/s. According to a ballistics calculator found HERE, the bullet should have a velocity of 1574 f/s at 50 yards. As is indicated by the photos Below, the bullet penetrated 6 inches into the test medium and expanded to a diameter of .55″. Retained weight was 120 grains or roughly 67%. The front section of the bullet clearly fragmented, sending chards of lead perpendicular to the path of the bullet. I’m guessing these lead slivers would cause extensive laceration in animal tissue.
158 Grain Remington Jacketed Soft Point
The Remington 158 grain jacketed soft point barely edged out the 180 grain in terms of penetration. The bullet was pushed by 17 grains of H-Lil’Gun for a muzzle velocity of 1900 f/s. Estimated 50 yard velocity is 1656 f/s. The bullet penetrated nearly 7 inches into the test media and expanded into a near perfect mushroom with a diameter of .61″. Retained weight was actually 158 grains or 100%. While this bullet created a nice even cavity in the test media and expanded into a mushroom worthy of a place in an advertisement, it would be interesting to see how well this bullet performs as velocity continues to dwindle. I may revisit this one in another test.
158 Grain Speer Gold Dot Hollowpoint
Next up was a 158 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow point pushed, once again, by 17.0 grains of H-Lil’gun for a muzzle velocity of 1885 f/s. Estimated 50 yard velocity is 1667 f/s. The bullet penetrated nearly 7″ into the test material and left a cavity that was slightly larger than the one left by the Remington bullet. The expanded diameter was .49″ and it retained 120 grains or about 76% of its original weight. It shed more fragments on its trip, but penetrated almost as deeply as the Remington bullet. I may have to square the 158 grainers off at low velocity to determine which one would be the better performer at 100 yards.
140 Grain Hornady Leverevolution
The 140 grain Hornady Leverevolution round is an interesting new bullet design that incorporates a flexible polymer ballistic tip. This enables the rounds to be safely loaded into to tube magazines such as those found on lever action rifles. To date, these are the only pointed bullets safe for tube mags. The factory loaded bullet left the muzzle at 1758 f/s and had an estimated 50 yard velocity of 1662 f/s. Penetration was 4.5″, the bullet expanded to .615″ and retained 127 grains or 91%. It would be interesting to see what these bullets would do if loaded to a higher velocity. Maybe as they become available as reloading components, I’ll be able to find out.
140 Grain Barnes XPB
The Barnes 140 grain XPB all copper hollow point provided the greatest amount of penetration so far. Pushed by 15.0 grains of Accurate #9, the average muzzle velocity was 1800 f/s making for an estimated 50 yard impact velocity of 1566 f/s. The bullet penetrated almost a foot of the test material, but did not create a very wide cavity. The copper petals that composed the tip either broke off completely or folded almost flat against the stem. Retained weight was 136 grains (97%) and the expanded diameter was .473″.
158 Grain Hornady XTP-FP
The Hornady XTP-FP pushed by 17.0 grains of Lil’gun left the muzzle at an average velocity of 1864 f/s. Estimated 50 yard impact velocity is 1681 f/s. Penetration was decent at about 7″ and the bullet carved a wide channel throughout the duration of its journey through the material. The bullet expanded to a diameter of .665″ and retained 136 grains (86%).
180 Grain Hard Cast-Gas Check
These rounds were generously donated by a member at the Leverguns.com discussion forums and consist of a 180 grain home cast flat nose bullet over 15.8 grains of H-Lil’Gun. The loading is a little on the hot side and should be worked up to very slowly and carefully. They showed no signs of excessive pressure in my Marlin, but your mileage may vary. I was testing at a different location and the distance to the target was slightly greater than during the previous tests (approximately 70 yards), so this must be taken into account when comparing results, which in this case are quite impressive. The bullets left the muzzle at 1800 f/s meaning an approximate 50 yard velocity of 1624 f/s and an impact velocity of 1559 f/s. Penetration, cavity, expansion, and weight retention were all exemplary. The bullet defeated 7.5″ of test material, expanded to a diameter of .615″, and retained 185 grains of weight (the actual starting weight of the bullet was therefore slightly more than the listed 180 grains). In terms of penetration, this bullet did more at 70 yards than the jacketed Remington 180 grain bullet did at 50 yards.
200 grain Cast Performance Lead Flat Point, Gas Check
This is the heaviest bullet I know of that can be seated in a .357 magnum case. With 13.0 grains of H-Lil’Gun, I was getting a muzzle velocity of around 1500 f/s from my 18.5″ carbine (this is not factory data, so anyone attempting this loading is doing so at their own risk). 50 yard impact velocity should be around 1350 and energy should be 809 ft/lbs. The amount of penetration I got from this round was surprising, but may have been due to warm temperatures making the test material softer than usual. Still, at 50 yards, this bullet went right through a 10″ test block and another 5″ of paraffin blocks. I was not able to recover the bullet, but I’m guessing by the diameter of the cavity that expansion was minimal and weight retention high.
One of the most valid pieces of criticism I’ve received about my ballistics tests is that I’m making the distances too short. Fair enough. After all, most big game is shot at distances greater than 20 yards. The reason I have previously been testing at a distance of less than 20 yards is simply because I’m not that great a shot. The Bullet Test Tubes I use are six inches in diameter, but I have to hit them within 2 inches of their exact center. Often, a peripheral hit will cause the bullet to deflect enough to leave the test material, making it useless until it can be recast. I found that at 20 yards, even I could consistently make dead center hits. That being said, it’s only fair to test hunting bullets at hunting distances, so I have restarted my testing process anew.Once again, the first rifle up to bat is my personal favorite, the Marlin model 1894C chambered in .357 mag. I can’t say enough good things about this particular carbine. It’s light, handy, easy on the shoulder and incredibly versatile. Loaded with full power rounds, it can turn a water jug inside out or kill a deer at reasonable ranges, or it can be loaded with lower power .38 spl rounds for small game hunting or inexpensive plinking. I’ve topped mine with a full sized scope for the purpose of the tests, but I find a peep site or red dot site to be a little less ungainly on this particular rifle.
180 Grain Remington Semi-Jacketed Hollowpoint
The first load I tested consisted of a 180 grain Remington jacketed hollow point pushed by 15 grains of H-Lil’Gun. These leave the 18.5″ barrel of the carbine at an average velocity of 1714 f/s. According to a ballistics calculator found HERE, the bullet should have a velocity of 1574 f/s at 50 yards. As is indicated by the photos Below, the bullet penetrated 6 inches into the test medium and expanded to a diameter of .55″. Retained weight was 120 grains or roughly 67%. The front section of the bullet clearly fragmented, sending chards of lead perpendicular to the path of the bullet. I’m guessing these lead slivers would cause extensive laceration in animal tissue.
158 Grain Remington Jacketed Soft Point
The Remington 158 grain jacketed soft point barely edged out the 180 grain in terms of penetration. The bullet was pushed by 17 grains of H-Lil’Gun for a muzzle velocity of 1900 f/s. Estimated 50 yard velocity is 1656 f/s. The bullet penetrated nearly 7 inches into the test media and expanded into a near perfect mushroom with a diameter of .61″. Retained weight was actually 158 grains or 100%. While this bullet created a nice even cavity in the test media and expanded into a mushroom worthy of a place in an advertisement, it would be interesting to see how well this bullet performs as velocity continues to dwindle. I may revisit this one in another test.
158 Grain Speer Gold Dot Hollowpoint
Next up was a 158 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow point pushed, once again, by 17.0 grains of H-Lil’gun for a muzzle velocity of 1885 f/s. Estimated 50 yard velocity is 1667 f/s. The bullet penetrated nearly 7″ into the test material and left a cavity that was slightly larger than the one left by the Remington bullet. The expanded diameter was .49″ and it retained 120 grains or about 76% of its original weight. It shed more fragments on its trip, but penetrated almost as deeply as the Remington bullet. I may have to square the 158 grainers off at low velocity to determine which one would be the better performer at 100 yards.
140 Grain Hornady Leverevolution
The 140 grain Hornady Leverevolution round is an interesting new bullet design that incorporates a flexible polymer ballistic tip. This enables the rounds to be safely loaded into to tube magazines such as those found on lever action rifles. To date, these are the only pointed bullets safe for tube mags. The factory loaded bullet left the muzzle at 1758 f/s and had an estimated 50 yard velocity of 1662 f/s. Penetration was 4.5″, the bullet expanded to .615″ and retained 127 grains or 91%. It would be interesting to see what these bullets would do if loaded to a higher velocity. Maybe as they become available as reloading components, I’ll be able to find out.
140 Grain Barnes XPB
The Barnes 140 grain XPB all copper hollow point provided the greatest amount of penetration so far. Pushed by 15.0 grains of Accurate #9, the average muzzle velocity was 1800 f/s making for an estimated 50 yard impact velocity of 1566 f/s. The bullet penetrated almost a foot of the test material, but did not create a very wide cavity. The copper petals that composed the tip either broke off completely or folded almost flat against the stem. Retained weight was 136 grains (97%) and the expanded diameter was .473″.
158 Grain Hornady XTP-FP
The Hornady XTP-FP pushed by 17.0 grains of Lil’gun left the muzzle at an average velocity of 1864 f/s. Estimated 50 yard impact velocity is 1681 f/s. Penetration was decent at about 7″ and the bullet carved a wide channel throughout the duration of its journey through the material. The bullet expanded to a diameter of .665″ and retained 136 grains (86%).
180 Grain Hard Cast-Gas Check
These rounds were generously donated by a member at the Leverguns.com discussion forums and consist of a 180 grain home cast flat nose bullet over 15.8 grains of H-Lil’Gun. The loading is a little on the hot side and should be worked up to very slowly and carefully. They showed no signs of excessive pressure in my Marlin, but your mileage may vary. I was testing at a different location and the distance to the target was slightly greater than during the previous tests (approximately 70 yards), so this must be taken into account when comparing results, which in this case are quite impressive. The bullets left the muzzle at 1800 f/s meaning an approximate 50 yard velocity of 1624 f/s and an impact velocity of 1559 f/s. Penetration, cavity, expansion, and weight retention were all exemplary. The bullet defeated 7.5″ of test material, expanded to a diameter of .615″, and retained 185 grains of weight (the actual starting weight of the bullet was therefore slightly more than the listed 180 grains). In terms of penetration, this bullet did more at 70 yards than the jacketed Remington 180 grain bullet did at 50 yards.
200 grain Cast Performance Lead Flat Point, Gas Check
This is the heaviest bullet I know of that can be seated in a .357 magnum case. With 13.0 grains of H-Lil’Gun, I was getting a muzzle velocity of around 1500 f/s from my 18.5″ carbine (this is not factory data, so anyone attempting this loading is doing so at their own risk). 50 yard impact velocity should be around 1350 and energy should be 809 ft/lbs. The amount of penetration I got from this round was surprising, but may have been due to warm temperatures making the test material softer than usual. Still, at 50 yards, this bullet went right through a 10″ test block and another 5″ of paraffin blocks. I was not able to recover the bullet, but I’m guessing by the diameter of the cavity that expansion was minimal and weight retention high.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)